Geopolitics are changing at a critical pace, and we can learn from the past to avoid wars today (Energy News Beat #172)

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Geopolitics are changing at a critical pace, and we can learn from the past to avoid wars today (Energy News Beat #172)

Sat February 3, 20248:52 PM EST57 Minute Read

Last Updated: Fri March 8, 20245:57 PM EST

“George McMillan, Founder and CEO of G3Strat Group, a geopolitical historian and current energy expert, stops by the podcast. This is the second of our podcast series, which talks about the academic scholars and grand strategies taught at the military academies and how the current administration uses these strategies.

George was also on the ground with Michael Yon, an international war correspondent, researching several stories. In my interview with Michael, they looked at the Chinese military base in Panama that is moving military-aged men from around the world to the open US border. This is all tied to energy, as we are also working on the Chinese connection to our grid and their ability to take it down in the case of a military conflict.

Is it incompetence, or is it by design that the world is heading into a potential multi-front war that the US can not win?“



Stuart Turley: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Energy News Beat podcast. My name’s Stuart Turley, president, CEO of the Sandstone Group. I’ve got a series with George McMillan, and it’s probably the most single important series that I’ve done as a podcast host, have you ever wondered why certain decisions are made or things go the way they go in the energy space around the geopolitical world?

Stuart Turley: George McMillan is a academia geopolitical guru and he has released a three articles on the news beat. The last one was U.S. cut off their European allies from Affordable energy. Now what? The one before that was Russian natural gas in geopolitical realignment. A reverse domino theory, the geopolitical problem of the U.S. and a German Russo-Japanese connection. All three of those articles are phenomenal.

Stuart Turley: They’re available. They’ll be in the show notes and George’s first podcast in I. We recorded for over 2 hours of content. George is knowledgeable He’s been boots on the ground around the world and I can’t begin to tell you how much I appreciate you getting to know you, George. George Thank you. You’re the CEO of McMillan and Association Associates.

Stuart Turley: Thank you. Thank you for stopping by the podcast.

George McMillan: yeah. Thanks. Lots to yeah and thanks for thanks for putting my work out there, especially in the in the energy sector, because there’s a few things that people really don’t understand and that’s the role of of of energy and geopolitics. Right. And they don’t know the grand strategies of how the United States has been always, you know, since since Kennan’s five power center doctrine, always trying to surround Russia at first.

George McMillan: And then in the 1949, Mao Zedong defeated Chiang Kai shek. Then it was containing Russia and China together to stop communism. Right. But the reverse domino theory. And then obviously. Well, what I’ve been looking at in Southeast Asia is looking at the Ho Chi Minh Trail campaign, you know, since 1958. Right. So I’ve been riding my motorcycle around, taking a lot of pictures.

George McMillan: I’d be going back, you know, hopefully by January, February ish. Right. But the the whole idea of the United States is they wanted to rebuild Western Europe and keep that as their allies after World War Two and re industrialize it because the argument was the Morgenthau plan was to keep Germany de industrialized so they can’t start a war again.

George McMillan: Right. But then how do you contain Russia? So then they can argument came from Ambassador George Kennan of you know you need to re industrialized and rebuild both Germany and France. So they can support an army to oppose the spread of communism from from from the Soviet Union as well as and that also since Russia spans such a big, huge part of the Eurasian heartland, you have to rebuild Japan and South and maintain South Korea.

George McMillan: You know, you’re getting into my hand seapower versus Seapower theory and then hem them in on on the on the Japanese side. So the idea was for the United States to be in power center number one, rebuild Europe in power center number two, rebuild Japan and South Korea in power center number three, and then contain Russia in power center four and China in power Center five.

George McMillan: So that’s basically the five power center doctrine. Well, okay, it’s just having a discussion offline as we were talking before. It’s an extension of the old British great game of always hemming in the Russian ports in Saint Petersburg, Sebastopol and Vladivostok. See all three that Russia only has three major ports in the subarctic, right? They’re all naturally surrounded and hemmed in by islands or seas.

George McMillan: Vladivostok is surrounded by Japan, so the United States moved into Japan, wanted to end the Japanese war early with the with the atomic bombs because they didn’t want Russia to take over more of the Koreas. They already took over the Northern Koreas and Sakhalin Island. They didn’t want them to take over the island chain because then the United States couldn’t put its navy in to surround Vladivostok, right.

George McMillan: The sea of our people.

Stuart Turley: And that feeds in right in to Ukraine. And why Russia took Crimea for those eight ports that are in the sub bases, the Black Sea, even though the black Sea is in there, as we kind of alluded to. Also on the last podcast, the map that I’m using, George, is the map that was on our article titled The Geopolitical Problem of the German Russo-Japanese Connection.

Stuart Turley: So we’ll take a look at that one and we’ll also have some other ones so producers of you can go in and fly that back out will be all right. So, George, sorry for cutting you off. Just wanted to help get into that because we also covered Gaza on the last one as well, too. But let’s go back on.

Stuart Turley: So those first three were a beautiful summary of the the articles are really going in to your next phase of your next three articles. So as we go over the summary of this, you and I have been having a wonderful interaction on the great traction these three stories are getting in our original podcast. It’s nuts how far this article has been going.

George McMillan: Yeah, you’re going to put up the fourth article today. Yes. And yeah, because okay, in this forum, no one’s going to read, no one’s going to read a hundred page book. So we got to do this, you know, two or three pages at a time. A People don’t know the role of energy in geopolitical realignment. And to the second problem is people have never heard of the Postman Post Mackinder Sea power versus sea power and sea power versus land power, grand strategies.

George McMillan: Those are taught, you know, some people are like, why? Why is George talking about these obscure theories? Because it’s what they teach at the military academies in the end, and Britain and UK. And then the Russians picked them up and then they use it to when you get into Mackinder Mahant let me let me back up a second.

George McMillan: My hand started the sea power versus sea power theories because it was, you know, after after the Civil War era and and the beginning of the battles with with this with Spain over over Cuba and the Spanish colonies in Latin America and especially the Caribbean. So he was just stating, going back through history of the wars between the naval wars between Great Britain and Portugal and and Spain, and especially France, and he’s going over those mercantilist strategic plans, right.

George McMillan: To to stop another country’s trade and make it well, it’s beggar thy neighbor policies is what they called it. Okay. I had a professor Schafer at Rutgers. He’s he lives up in northern Thailand now that always drilled home what these strategic plans were right. So what what what my hand talked about. Well, he read a lot of Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations because that was 1776.

George McMillan: So he’s so 100 years later, he’s he’s talking about that. And David Ricardo’s fundamentals of political economy. He he’s really focusing on those things. A country has a production of goods, but it doesn’t become wealth until you can trade it for things that you don’t have but need. And then he goes into you trade out of your strengths for your weaknesses, but you’re also getting allies with it, right?

George McMillan: So in in post Clausewitz he in theory and Bismarck, you’re using your your economy and your infrastructure to drive your military, which then drives your diplomacy. So you get diplomatic, infrastructural, military, economic dime analysis or political military, economic, social, infrastructural, informational, you know, transportation, communications. When you get into economic theory, especially the solo swan models or the are the Rostow growth and development models, that part of the new hand theory is really advanced with modern economics, right?

George McMillan: So a way to stop the economic growth theories and the national power measures of promise in dime is to stop somebody trade. So once you understand that that’s the basis of of Kennan, who was from Yale, that’s his focus on hemming in all the Russians ports on both sides, both on the European side and the Pacific Rim side.

George McMillan: So then that explains why we resurrected the Japanese and industry after World War Two. It explains why we maintained the foothold in in South Korea. And then it explains the whole Southeast Asia, French Indochina, Vietnam War history and why there’s so much focus on especially while it was start out in Lao in Northern Vietnam, and then it just kept on spreading, right?

George McMillan: It’s the whole idea is not just to contain communism is to control the rim land to all around Eurasia in order to block the heartland. And the original Mackinder speak because Russia changed from Soviet Union to Russia or back and forth right? Different political systems. You know, Putin spent a lot of money in rebuilding the Orthodox Church because he says, Martha, atheistic Marxism is just a big it’s a big nothing.

George McMillan: It’s a real failure. So once you know.

Stuart Turley: That when I was listening, I listened to that first podcast over five times. I’ve been in the car, a lot of orders and everything, your lights in the way that you explained all of this was phenomenal. I started having some serious lights as everything started going off and as we talked about the Crimea, as it feeds into today, that history and we’re going to have some of those as the transcript comes comes out on this.

Stuart Turley: The Ukraine war was intentional from Putin to come down and get those sea bases as we kind of talked about the has the whole nado kind of thing in there. You sent me also some an article yesterday with wine nado and I don’t want to go into this because this will be covered I’m sure, in some of your your other things that keeping everything that you’re discussing right now in current geopolitical is the point I’m trying to make.

Stuart Turley: You just explained all of these things. And when our last podcast, you led it right up to why Gaza was going on. So this is your article. And the reason I’m bringing this up is your article titled The Geopolitical Problems of a U.S. German Russo-Japanese Connection actually digs into the potential of not having an ally in Japan. Yeah, everything you described is a real problem for a government that does not think correctly or not excuse me, that thinks aggressively in and thinks that everybody is going to be their ally, Not everybody is going to be your ally, because the key point out of those first three in the forest being released today is the fact

Stuart Turley: that our government is assuming governments will be our allies, but we have not been supporting their low cost energy. George. We don’t support their low cost energy and we deprive them of them. The U.S. set up Japan with a heck of an industrial machine. We upgraded their machines and their things, and that’s why they were economically very successful after World War Two.

Stuart Turley: The best thing that could ever happen to a country is have the U.S. come in and beat them and then get their manufacturing and everything up again. And you nailed it with everything that you just talked about in how the decisions were made with This is kind of a confirmation that I think I understand what you’re saying, and that is we were deciding on how to get Germany either to set them and tie them up for success in industrialized them.

Stuart Turley: Was all of that a fairly consistent correct statement?

George McMillan: Yeah, yeah. The Marshall Plan did that.

Stuart Turley: So everything we’re talking about applies to today. And I just that’s the key point for people listening to this in listening to your series.

George McMillan: Yeah it’s there’s a few things I want to bring up, you know from the way that you stated that. Yes. Is and the reason why I went back to the great game and and later on, you know okay we already have a bunch of papers that we need to go over right down the road when you actually we actually need to get into the history of the of the of the grand strategies.

George McMillan: Right. What I want people to focus on right here because we get it. We did a two hour interview where I went basically counterclockwise around Eurasia because I like to do that pretty much. Or did we.

Stuart Turley: Go until I kept interrupting.

George McMillan: And we still need and we’re still dozens of papers away from getting in to Turkey because that’s really although there are strategic plans. Right. Because we need to we need to focus. We need to control for one variable at a time and just talk about Russia and energy. Right. And and how it’s pipelines going out to the other industrial power centers.

George McMillan: So from the heartland to the coastal rim land and in Mackinder language. Right. We’re focusing on that. The other thing I want to focus on, when you go back to the great game in the history of the grand strategies is this is a continual war over the last 400 years.

Stuart Turley: Wow.

George McMillan: Okay. So people need to stop thinking, well, Putin invaded Ukraine and in February of of 2022. No, they need to see this as an ongoing war. And then what? Speakman called, you know, the Yale professor, the the neutral zones. So Kennan was talking about you rebuild you rebuild Germany and push on the Warsaw Pact, countries going west to east.

George McMillan: We are the agency. Well both the Brits and the Americans got rid of Mossadeq in Iran to try to break up a Soviet alliance with Iran so they would get sea access in the Persian Gulf and and the and the Indian Ocean. So people need to see this as just an ongoing conflict. Also, again, we talked about Operation Cyclone of Zbigniew Brzezinski and, you know, again, Harbor Grand Strategies.

George McMillan: He took to the Yale seminars with Kissinger and and Klaus Schwab in 67 then, okay, they’re all in the same mix. Wow. So it’s to the the foray into into Central Asia is always to try to to try to break up Russian and Chinese pipeline integration and railway integration to keep them from integrating because the firepower center doctrine is how do you surround them and then divide and conquer them.

George McMillan: But people need to see it as an ongoing war. And what the what the first paper was about on the on the domino theory was it’s actually not the spread of communism. That was the big worry. It’s actually the natural gas integration and presidium analysis that actually changes everything. That’s actually, you know, because I was I went in and out of college.

George McMillan: So yeah, when I went back and finished my finished my undergrad degree and, and the, and the Berlin Wall fell and, and communism fell and all of that, we thought it was great and it, it, and there’s a bunch of options we need to get into too. But yeah, if we could just get into we’ll go over the map.

George McMillan: Okay. And then get into because I already went over enough of what the five power center doctrine was, right? I’ve done papers on and podcast and slide sets on what a Rousseau centric six Power doctrine is on. Right? And then going forward again, this is going to take a lot of a lot of papers and and a lot of podcasts.

George McMillan: If we’re trying to keep it down to under an hour right, to explain to put it in nine power center doctrine, because you have to explain under what conditions the the alliances will break down. So if you use the if you use the nine power centers as the U.S., U.K., France, Germany, Russia, India, China, South Korea and Japan.

George McMillan: Right. And then the other ones are secondary or tertiary powers. You can kind of see if they get a new government, because democracies, you know, different political parties and factions and ruling coalitions come into power. Right. We might reverse the old one. That’s what democracies do. So you can start to look at these things and start to say, okay, if you have a change in government because of an election in this country, they’re going to get cheap natural gas.

George McMillan: And then what? Then their industrial industries are going to become more cost competitive globally and they’re going to move ahead. Then another country is going to jump on and say, well, we got to stay competitive, so we’re going to buy natural gas in pipelines, then they’re going to jump into it. So it’s no set order. I have it set up where you can just monitor it and see see how the internal elections are going, knowing already knowing that this is going to be in.

George McMillan: So the first batch of papers is just about the Russian connection. So the second batch is going to be about the the Chinese Silk Road and Belt Road, not just supply line and realignment and how they work together.

Stuart Turley: So everybody throws around. George And I cannot wait for this series because everybody goes, it’s the Belt and Road or it’s the Silk Road or it’s the belting, so whatever. Nobody really understands the difference. yeah, I can’t wait to hear your explanations on this.

George McMillan: Yeah, just to give people a quick overview on what that is. Right. The original Silk Road was was to build pipelines and railroad infrastructure, you know, upgrade the existing Soviet infrastructure where it existed and put new pipelines to Turkmenistan and and Kazakhstan where it didn’t exist before. And they wanted to get into Iran because Iran is one of the biggest natural gas reserves in the world.

George McMillan: So if once the Soviet Union fell, they wanted to move into that area before the Soviet Union, before Russia could could, you know, could collect itself and and and redevelop and establish itself. So they wanted to move in there and establish that because with their growing economy, their their energy demands went through the roof, they were self-sufficient. But the more they industrialized, their higher their living standards.

George McMillan: Got more people get air conditioners, refrigerators, phones, cars, then the more energy that they need for that living standard. Yeah. So there you almost have like an X or not an excellent but a geometric increase of their energy consumptions. So they needed to get they needed to go in there and get to natural gas before anybody else did, before the West did and before Russia reestablished itself.

George McMillan: So they made a mad dash for the Silk Road to take the natural gas out of the Caspian Sea region and move it into Kashgar, into a rumsey so they could get it into into Beijing and Shanghai and Hong Kong and everything else. Right. So the first Silk Road program is just to get that established. Now there’s that they run into.

George McMillan: Another problem of the MOC is what they call the Malacca Strait dilemma of with their further increase of energy needs. Even after they did that, they’re still, you know, getting 80 or 90% of their energy from from the Arabian Peninsula, sent through them, sent through the Strait of Hormuz, the Straits of Malacca. Then it goes through the through the different islands.

George McMillan: So the idea there is to is to put ports on the end of the Silk Road and the end of the Silk Road project and tribal. Harpur What are Port Karachi and chalk? Poor Myanmar. Okay, I named those in geographical order, not chronological order, but each one of those things does something very specific as far as being able to get cargo ships or tanker ships to one of those ports and then try to ship their cargo and or gas through pipelines and railroads into Kashgar, Urumqi, or in the case of the jackpot port in Myanmar from the Bay of Bengal into Kunming, Yunnan, China.

George McMillan: So each one bypasses are a maritime chokepoint, so the U.S. Navy can’t cut it off, right? Because they want to end the century of humiliation and of the of the colonial era. Plus, Mao Tse tung did not want did not like being treated as a second citizen by Joseph Stalin. Right. So, again, they moved the Belt and Road Initiative is to secure energy and not be the second fiddle to Russia anymore.

George McMillan: Right. And then the the the belt and Road is a maritime strategy to get access to the Indian Ocean so the U.S. can hem them in with the U.S. naval bases on the first island chain in the Pacific Ocean. So each yeah, I know we’re going out of order here, but that’s okay.

Stuart Turley: I just made a little light, went back off on. I got about 19 other things. But this is great. Keep going.

George McMillan: Yeah. It doesn’t matter which order you explain this stuff in, because it’s. Everything’s a separate aspect that adds up. Yep. And it only, again, I go back to the Firepower Center doctrine, because if you understand how the United States and the UK have always been trying to hem in Russia because they don’t want they don’t want the biggest raw materials producer connected to the biggest industrial power centers, because eventually they’re going to start, you know, with with dependency theory, they’re going to start wanting to move the value out of production into the heartland.

Stuart Turley: Exactly.

George McMillan: And then they’re going to industrialize. So then you get into the different economic development theories you have going on. And what was Putin’s thesis on It was using raw materials to boost to boost the economic sectoral development. So you get into a lot of different economic theories here. Do you want me to go into it? Okay. Yeah.

Stuart Turley: So I’m following you, George. I’m getting tired flying around the world, but I’m having fun, so you just keep going.

George McMillan: yeah. When I. When I go on my vacations and ride around on my motorcycles or whatever, I love to see these. I’d also do the little fact finding missions all over the place. You just. You learn so much just by going and looking at these infrastructural projects. So to get out of so for China not to be cut off on the Malacca Strait, that’s the purpose of building the ports and railway pipeline systems on the Indian Ocean.

George McMillan: But it also surrounds India, India and China. I’ve been rivals since the 1950s because Mao Zedong suspected India of colluding with Stalin to thwart Chinese advancement, real or imagined. The Indians say that’s nonsense. He’s just paranoid. But that’s why Mao Zedong wanted to start moving into Tibet and East Turkistan, which is in Jiang Province. Right. And start pushing in the Himalayas to push back India because he was paranoid.

George McMillan: That continues with the Belt and Road program. And, you know, 70 years later or 60 years later of then surrounding India and by going through Pakistan, Iran and then Myanmar, neither sides. So when when we get to why these two things are critical later on, you have different overt and covert operations trying to either extend these these infrastructural projects or block them.

George McMillan: So that’s why there’s always so much conflict in these new and using statements, terms in these neutral zone areas. And people need to look at this as just a continual war because it has been a continual war, you know, for a very long time now. Right. You know, especially since the British left India in 1947, you know, something’s filling that vacuum right.

Stuart Turley: Let me just that’s a great explanation. And I’m just I don’t want to derail us because you and I are out of the same mold. SQUIRREL Yeah, just like Tom Kirkman. But you bring up England, and England used to be the have their the British sterling pound used to be the world’s global dollar, if you would.

Stuart Turley: They fell they their policies. They lost the dollar. Once the British sterling pound went away and the U.S. dollar replaced it. I see a pattern happening and I see the U.S. dollar going away. And I think once the demise of the dollar happens, as you point out, once we have the debt at a certain level, this is going to be a whole new swirl.

Stuart Turley: And we’re following England’s path. But I think we’re going to go down even further. But that’s that’s a whole nother topic. I just wanted to add in there, the importance of everything you just said is also tied to our financial issues coming around the corner. I hope you don’t mind me just saying that. yeah. Podcast listeners need to understand, even though this has been a 70 year discussion that we’ve had right now, everything applies to today.

Stuart Turley: Does that make sense?

George McMillan: Yeah. Okay. It’s in the papers that that you already posted, like I said, and you posted this post a fourth one later on.

Stuart Turley: Yep. Today.

George McMillan: Yeah. Okay. One thing I always stress, it doesn’t matter where the Russian pipelines blow up, it doesn’t matter when they blew up. What? What decade? Right. Since the United States and the U.S. and the UK are trying to stop two things a natural gas going from the end user to Western Europe. It’s been Germany well, and Germany and Italy.

George McMillan: Right. And then the end user in Western Europe paying in a euro rubles exchange and exiting the petro dollar. I have different some of my NBA friends want me to to not use the petro dollar and the US world reserve currency. They want me to be a little bit more specific in that. But for my case, I want to keep it as simple as possible, right?

George McMillan: Focus and focus on the geopolitical aspect of it, not the weaponization of the dollar as much. Right. Okay.

Stuart Turley: So now why are they.

George McMillan: Getting that’s got to be in a separate set of papers that we can’t even get to until March. But behind the scenes with my MBA friends, I focus on that. Wow.

Stuart Turley: That makes sense.

George McMillan: They do. They want to get into it because okay, that’s their area of study. I’m trying to control for one variable at a time and keep everything simple because basically we’ve got to give people a 100 page paper, a 100 page book or 200 page book or whatever works out to be two pages at a time. So this is this.

Stuart Turley: Is not easy.

George McMillan: Yeah, this is going to take all right. This is going to take six months to a year to do. It’s not going to be. Yeah, it’s going to take a while. Right. And yeah, one thing we noticed in the comment section just yesterday is people read the one two pages, but they didn’t read the other ones and they’re they’re already lost, you know, that’s why.

Stuart Turley: That’s why we want our page on our website and you We are going to put a page just for you so that we can have it organized in a nice fashion for you so that all these articles are going to be articulated and we can just have it right there. And as we refer these things to everybody, we can say everything on George from the desk of George.

George McMillan: So yeah, because again, you know, we’re we’re going, we’re going through everything out of order, but it doesn’t mean it’s there is no particular order here. Okay. One thing I was talking about because there’s so much to learn is just one thing, is that people have to understand because, you know, Jeffrey Sachs talks about it in his in his interviews that he’s been been doing like a lot this past year.

George McMillan: He’s been very vocal, see in develop in development economics. You’re talking about positive some gains. Right. Okay. So the way I put human behavior in my unified behavioral theory models, which is a separate channel, right? There is two extremes of human behavior. One, because everything is nominal continuum is when you start to build measurement systems, you start with that, then go to interval ordinal and ratio models, Right?

George McMillan: Right. So if you break everything down to a continuum of full continuum, human behavior, so you got positive mutual, some gains on one side and you have sabotage on the other. So on the on one half of the continuum, you’re going to have gradations of mutual, some positive, some gains. On the other side, you’re going to have zero sum extraction where one person takes 100% from the other.

George McMillan: And then on the end of it, you have negative self-sabotage behavior. So political economic development theory from Adam Smith, Base theory and Ricardo trade theory is based on positive some mutual some gain geostrategic mercantilist theory is negative, some sabotage.

George McMillan: So people have to realize different government agencies, overt and covert work on different behavioral dynamics. so Jeffrey Sachs is a development economist, and he wanted a content peace plan of mutual trade dependency of democracies. So he wanted the West to interact with with Central Europe as a as a neutral zone where you don’t put tanks or rockets in the neutral zone.

George McMillan: Right. And then economically integrate Russia with Europe because democracies don’t go to war and trade alliances don’t go to war because you’re going to ruin both your economies if you go to war. I mean, you lose money. You’re not making money. Right. But what he’s been talking about in his podcast for the past for the past year, I mean, he’s really he’s really hot under the collar about this is he thinks the United States and I agree with him totally the United States should have gone into an interdependence model and not a and not as a negative some sabotage strategy like.

George McMillan: Right. So the negative sounds, sabotage strategy is the covert agencies operating in what Speakman called the rim. Yeah the the REM land and the neutral zone. The neutral zone being really Central Asia. Right. So we with the Brzezinski Stansfield Turner, Operation Cyclone the idea was fund the Mujahideen destabilize the southern republics of Russia. Right. And then try to get all the oil and natural gas out of there into the west by pipeline.

George McMillan: So this none this is new. This is a continual war. Most of my lifetime, basically. Actually. Wow. So if people just look at this is ongoing, then they’ll start to understand why there’s all these conflict, because you have different ethnic groups. Okay. The British have always done this, played one ethnic group off of another. They play this sort of PWN jobs and and a whole bunch of other things that’s been going on for a long time.

George McMillan: When you start to see these, okay, like in Myanmar, you have all these factions and that and the 1027 alliance. Right. That all of a sudden are in their training videos, their troops are out there doing all these military training exercises and now they have weapons, they have this and that and the other thing. Well, the only way that that kind of guns and ammo falls out of the sky is by cargo helicopter and only nation states.

George McMillan: Again, not focusing on any particular country because there’s so many covert agencies operating in these areas. Just look at a map and and Stevie Wonder could see it. Which ones? Because India is a rival with China, India doesn’t want to be surrounded by China. The US and the UK want to maintain that Malacca Strait choke point along with all the other maritime choke points.

George McMillan: So people just look at a map of the choke points. I’m focusing on Malacca and Strait of Hormuz, but there’s other ones. You know, Suez Canal is obviously one strait, Amanda is another one in the Red Sea. You know, you can go down the list.

Stuart Turley: Yeah. The Red Sea is where Yemen just just to bring in I’m willing to make this one comment is they just had the Yemen who is dropping some missiles interrupting traffic right there.

George McMillan: Yeah yeah. Well we’ll get into that.

Stuart Turley: I just was saying that for our podcast listeners because we’ve been running stories all over about that.

George McMillan: Yeah, that’s a whole nother can of worms. We touched on that because again, it looks like you are reading the Institute for the Study of War. It looks like they want you know, they want that war with Iran because they again, they need to build that pipeline underneath the Caspian to go through Armenia. We spent a lot of money in influence in the election in Armenia with get passionate and elected.

George McMillan: And we spent what, in 2000 for a lot of money to you know, to move their election, moved the elections in Georgia to get Mikhail Saakashvili elected there, to get NATO’s UK friendly governments in power. Right. Same thing in Myanmar. So this whole area, this whole thing is they have a problem. Liquid LNG is way more expensive than natural gas shipped by pipeline.

George McMillan: It’s a sea power coping strategy to feed its allies, but at a 30% higher cost. That’s what the opening papers are about. It’s going to since energy is an every product, every good and service and increase in energy costs is a cost push inflation that drives the other inflations because then they got to cover it with monetary inflation and then have a degraded living standard and then people are going to buy less and something else, right?

George McMillan: And then the industries are going to go out of business. Germany’s been industrializing because you need to move. You need to move your heavy industry close to where the cheap energy is.

Stuart Turley: Exactly. It’s all about the energy. Yeah, just as Georges is A side note, I visited with one of the head guys at Gazprom years ago. He was one of the he was in charge of their entire investor relations thing, 13 under $0.13 to market to consumer is Gazprom’s cost.

George McMillan: O amortized over over how many years do they amortize because he does inside numbers obviously I don’t have.

Stuart Turley: Yeah he didn’t he didn’t give it to me. But if you think you know a normal hour Henry hub price right now is what let me look I can tell you you hear him say it is two $52.50 the U.S. can’t produce for that cheap. So I just want our listeners to understand less than $0.10 compared to 250.

Stuart Turley: You know, that’s. yeah. I mean, so when you’re sitting there thinking of price to market, that’s a lot of profit. And then and not trying to interrupt on this, but yesterday Putin put out a note saying Russia is becoming the new global growth center as the West rests on its laurels, the GDP for Russia is up to 3.5% on their GDP this year.

Stuart Turley: Their energy has been exporting without even concern with all the sanctions and everything else. So I just want to take that tiny second break back in to where you were, because our folks need to understand everything you’re describing has ramifications today.

George McMillan: Yeah, it’s I just kind of shake my head because, yeah, this isn’t going to be done in a one hour podcast. This isn’t going to be done in a month. This has got to be ongoing discussion because this is there’s so many facets to this. It’s going to take a very long time. Right? Okay. Like the one guy, somebody in the comment section said, no, we didn’t separate the the allies, the allies from from energy here.

George McMillan: You know, here is a chart. Well, no, the problem with the chart is accurate. I get it right. It’s it’s it’s 30% more or it’s. Yeah, it depends on where the energy’s coming from, what it is. Right. And how you’re amortizing the cost over decades or not. Right.

Stuart Turley: Or per contract. I mean, it depends on I mean there’s so many different ways to to flip that number around. But still.

George McMillan: I mean, again, you know, we have I’m throwing out two geostrategic arguments, right? There’s already number crunchers out there. If they if they see what my geopolitical arguments are and they put my information together with their information, we’re going to have better We’re going to have better models. Exactly. So, yeah, it’s because the people yesterday, people are reading maybe what article, but not reading the other one.

George McMillan: So they’re not seeing a systematic explanation because I want to go from I want to go from the north of Russia, right. And my way down Eurasia, because what I want is systematic. Okay, We’re not doing that in this conversation, but I mean, we’re doing it.

Stuart Turley: We’re doing it by the articles.

George McMillan: Yeah, it’s a conversation. Right? Right. So, yeah, it’s the morning. So we’re having the conversation over coffee instead of beers. Yeah. Okay. Well, we’ll have a wine symposium in the evenings, maybe. I don’t know. So if we work our way down systematically and we control for, you know, one or two variables or factors at a time, then people can start to see a systematic build out.

Stuart Turley: Right.

George McMillan: Okay. Right now we’re just talking about two issues that we’re talking about in the papers. So, yeah, there’s a bunch of things that that you raised because you’re talking about the pound Sterling was the world reserve currency under Pax Britannica. Then you have PAX America and then, you know, Bretton Woods and then the then the petrodollar of of of of Kissinger and what Abdulaziz Right.

George McMillan: In 73 that was adopted and finalized by all of OPEC in 1975 then. Right. That made all the energy that OPEC sold had to be done in dollars. And we didn’t have a big debt, national debt until we switched to that format, because now there is a way then there was a way for Congress to push debt and have it paid for by people buying our Treasury notes with, you know, as their as their money market.

George McMillan: And then now the debt now the debts driven up. There’s no way we’re going to pay this back, especially when you start looking at we’re almost $34 trillion in debt. And I’ve been saying for ten years we’re going to have inflation at 30 trillion and then rampant or, you know, higher levels of inflation that at at 35 trillion.

George McMillan: And then I was watching a video that the institute put out recently and their economics professors, I forget their names but they what they track in their podcast is at what point the interest payments are going to start eclipsing the whole Department of Defense or the whole social services or the whole intelligence agencies. Right. Because the neocons track progress in military power, right?

George McMillan: The neo liberals and the left, the AOC, Pelosi left. They track power, they track progress in terms of socialism, of expanding the bureaucracies, going to a welfare state. So the neo liberals might have a softer form of social ism. And the far left social Democrats of America have a much more expansive version of of socialism right? And the neo cons want the military, but they all want big government, right?

George McMillan: But that’s going to drive us to a point where either the banks aren’t going to get paid, the people owning the Treasury bills. Okay? They already know that they have MBAs on again, they got number crunchers on that. So we’re throwing in the geopolitical aspect of that so they can better fine tune their models. We can better fine tune our models.

George McMillan: Right. You know, that’s the point of this exercise of of throwing it out there for general discussion. And then we’re also looking at the ad, Wesley Clark’s videos, because he’s been talking about why we’re invading these countries in the Middle East. And there is a policy coup. A certain people have taken over. What are what are they doing?

George McMillan: What are their motives? Right. So we’re adding their rigorous analysis to what he was talking about in his 2007 campaign. Right. Also. So, again.

Stuart Turley: In on those videos, George, if you cut the time, we’re still recording our podcast, our podcast listeners.

George McMillan: Yeah, we.

Stuart Turley: Fly in some of the most important pieces as you tell us which ones he’s talking to, and we’ll get those flown in either at the end or interject them in the appropriate times if that. Yeah.

George McMillan: And that and the two minute I mean in, in, in the seven country video, it was right at the right before the two minute mark. Right. And then he then he gets into the countries that they want to invade.

Stuart Turley: So that would be a good point to fly it in now.

George McMillan: Yeah. Okay. And then and then you start talking about then he starts if you overlay a map on that, you see where the pipelines want to go. Again, I didn’t really want to get into the Iranian thing, but we’ll get into it. We’ll get it now that we’re there anyway because, well, it’s a conversation, so it’s kind of about random paper.

George McMillan: The papers are systematic conversations, are at ranting. Right. So you get the the Qatar pipeline wanted to go from Sunni controlled, you know Qatar right. Sunni controlled Saudi Arabia to Sunni controlled Jordan. But then they stop at Shia controlled Syria and Lebanon. Right. Okay. Because. Okay, so the Shia, the Alawite Shia that are in Lebanon and Syria, which are now all Hezbollah.

George McMillan: Right. Okay. Just again, keeping things very simple here, or Iranian control. As ever since 1970s, the Sunnis have been trying to go into Afghanistan to surround Shia Persia. Right. The Arabs, the Arabs and the Persians have always been fighting since biblical times. Everybody knows that. But since since the Sunnis have been trying to encircle the Shias, then the Shias, what’s their counter strategy is to break out of the encirclement.

George McMillan: So if someone looks at a Sunni Shia map, you can see where you got the Houthi areas and in Yemen are Shia. And then in and just south of Jeddah in Saudi Arabia and on the east coast, the Persian Gulf, all the way from Baghdad, all the way down to to to Qatar, that whole eastern seaboard of that area is Shia.

George McMillan: So they’re striking back. Right. Trying to take control of those areas and what they call the Shia Crescent Crescent. They’re really trying to build a cross to Kurdistan in northern Iraq to hook up and feed Bashar al Assad. Right. So, again, going to the pipeline map, the pipeline going from natural gas, getting from Qatar, which is has a there’s a lot of natural gas in the Persian Gulf.

George McMillan: They need to get it to Europe. It can go through the Sunni controlled areas, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan. It gets blocked in Lebanon, in Syria, and then it reconnects into Turkey. So they needed to get rid of those governments. So that explains the seven countries that they wanted to invade that Wesley Clark was talking. That explains the use of big tech in the Arab Spring driving revolutions in areas.

George McMillan: To me it’s, well, my interpreters that I have in the Middle East. We’re adamant that this is going to create such as a Frankenstein’s monster is what that the Indians call it. But they were just saying it’s going to stir up such a hornet’s nest, it might go out of control. Hence I talk about the Brzezinski, Stansfield Turner era.

George McMillan: Was regime change destabilization? Right then it looked like with the GWOT area, you know, global war on terror, terror after 11, that’s a regime change nation building project which failed. Then we left out of Afghanistan and we turned it back to IV Operation Cyclone, regime change, destabilization, right? So they need that pipeline to replace Russian gas going through going through Syria.

George McMillan: What did Russia do if that’s the strategy of the US and UK, then the Russian counter strategy is to support Bashar al Assad, support Iran and block it. You’re supporting Iran to keep the natural gas coming out of the Caspian Sea region underneath the Caspian Sea into Armenia and Georgia, where they moved, where they while they I don’t want to say rigged the elections, but they they influence the elections.

George McMillan: They influence the elections in those areas. We want to stay politically correct here so they can get those pipelines through Armenia and Georgia and Fiona Hill in 2000 for Brookings Institution for Robert Kagan, married to Victoria Nuland. Right. Did a paper on building the trans Black Sea pipeline from Batumi, Georgia, to Burgas, Bulgaria. So they’ve had this plan in effect since at least then, obviously, because she’s written a paper, it’s on the Brookings Institution website.

George McMillan: I downloaded it, make sure it didn’t disappear. So oops. Now Russia is supporting Iran to keep the pipeline from going to keep them from destabilizing Iran. Yep. And they went in. They backed Bashar al Assad to stop the pipeline from from going through from Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan into Turkey is a Sunni controlled Turkey and their part of NATO’s their part NATO kind of sitting on a fence.

George McMillan: They’re sitting on several fences, which is why I don’t want to get into it. But that was the that was the problem. So now you’ve got the Hamas attack in Israel that a lot people are like it took them a little bit too long. I don’t know anybody in the industry that doesn’t say it took them a little bit too long to respond like they wanted a reason.

George McMillan: They wanted it to be a little bit more horrific. So they have a reason to flatten Gaza. It’s disgusting. Yeah. And I don’t know anybody in the quick reaction force business that isn’t leaning that direction. Again, what Hamas data is is horrific. There’s no question. And but they are the reason to flatten Gaza. Yeah it’s not to SEWA it’s not the the Ben Gurion Canal because that can actually go north of Gaza because a lot of people are talking about that.

George McMillan: They could have done that decades ago going around. It’s not that the Gaza Marine oil play and gas play out there make sense, but the pipelines there were supposed to go underneath the Mediterranean Sea to Greece. Yep, that takes too long. They didn’t do that yet. Maybe it’s too exposed to sabotage if they did. Right. I just you know, I don’t.

George McMillan: I can read pipeline maps. I can’t read their minds. Yeah, we can. I can read maps and I can be strategic. You know, you can make a game theoretic strategic plan if side eight does does something, you know, how is how is side B going to respond to that? That’s all I’m doing is just building game theoretic models in a geo strategic format, right.

George McMillan: So yeah, that’s all this is. Yeah. People will probably call me a Russian shill for, for building strategic game theoretic strategic models. But whatever, you’re right, they can have as much fun with this as they want, because a year from now, they’re going to see this play out, Right? So it doesn’t matter.

Stuart Turley: Well, you know, I’ve affectionately called you Jack Ryan. And, you know, I sit here and I watched Jack Ryan a little while ago. You know, I don’t want to know what you know. Is it sitting here going, I don’t want anybody showing up on our doorstep? Fortunately, everything we’re talking about is academia.

George McMillan: yeah. yeah. Maybe more like Indiana Jones if you want to go with that character. yeah. Okay.

Stuart Turley: Well, either one’s better looking than me. So we’re.

George McMillan: Off. Yeah. Yeah, I just. Yeah, Kevin.

Stuart Turley: Costner could play you in a movie.

George McMillan: You know? Yeah. I mean, so. I mean, yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know anything about it all or. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuart Turley: Now I can see when we make your book into a movie that Kevin Costner would be there. And I’d be there like Marty Feldman with a hump on my back.

George McMillan: Yeah. All right.

Stuart Turley: When you write your book, you got to have a marty carry in your bags around. Okay?

George McMillan: All right. Yeah, well, yeah, we’ll do okay. We’re getting back to reality. sorry. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t have his looks, and I don’t have his money, so we’re. We’re going to get back to reality. Yeah So when you get to when you get to the. The Syrian pipelines. I’m sorry. We’re talking about the canal. Right?

George McMillan: And we’re talking about the, the, the, the Gaza Marine play. And so then what they really need is the pipeline going through the Levant. Right. And right now. So you got, you got in Speakman services is the cordon sanitaire in Eastern Europe because they moved NAITO into Eastern Europe to surround all the pipelines coming out of Belarus.

George McMillan: Right. And then, you know, flaring off to all the other countries. So they blocked that off thinking that Russia was going to collapse with the light with the slightest bit of sanctions. Right. Again, Putin’s thesis is how to use an export led growth model on on raw materials. Right. Or an economic development plan, you know, a sectoral development plan following either, you know, like a like a Rothschild take off theory or almost sectoral growth theory.

George McMillan: So they were trading oil for technological knowhow and joint ventures both in export led growth model. The problem with that is with the oligarchs that they put it that the United States put into play the, you know, the big finance. They’re sucking so much money out of the system with the petrodollar trading system that they can’t keep the investment money inside Russia.

George McMillan: Right. So the Russian hard liners, you know, got rid of Yeltsin, but Putin power and told him basically we need to keep this investment money inside Russia for economic development and the Western oriented oligarchs that are putting the money every place but Russia, you know, Swiss bank accounts, city of London, of course, Wall Street, Caymans, you know, wherever or Cyprus, you know, you’re all the big offshore banking centers.

George McMillan: How to get that stopped and keep the investment inside Russia. So that’s one of the I well, I got I did three videos on that on the Russian strategic plans on the Working Brother channel on YouTube. It’s high informational, extremely boring, low production value. But I again, I just did it just to get these things out there. Yeah we need to do a higher production values.

George McMillan: I value videos, I totally get it. But you know, just to get the information out there, we did it that way right? But again, for us to do it in this format more to an energy sector because that’s just the start of general, you know, it was just both for us to kind of practice. Right. Well, again, it’s going to take us a year to get these different strategic plans out there, because once people start to see what the different strategic plans are and what the difference between economic growth models are, right?

George McMillan: That’s positive. Some growth in the following the content, these triangle and you know, interdependency triangle and versus the covert agencies doing the negative some sabotage people are going to understand you all the what the conflict of low to high intensity conflict that’s all around that Asia all around Eurasia is going to start to make increasingly more sense. It is not a random it’s plant, it’s orchestrated, It’s the continuous fighting in the neutral zones.

George McMillan: Again, I went back to Vietnam. It’s it was to stop the spread of communism. Then it’s to stop Russia from building its pipelines. Now, one reason and then the second reason is to stop Chinese integration. Because if Russia and Chinese integrate infrastructure, actually, yeah, then that the economically military, militarily and diplomatically integrate also because whenever you spend $1,000,000,000 on building something you use, you know, the military is armed guards to protect it.

George McMillan: You know, individuals hire armed guards to protect their businesses. Nation states use their military armed guards to protect their billion dollar, trillion dollar infrastructural projects. Right? Yeah. People need to start understanding what the conflict is in each one of these areas. And I don’t go to these areas for no reason. I mean, I take weird because I’m into economic development theory and geopolitics.

George McMillan: Yep. Have you seen the.

Stuart Turley: Have you seen the movie Air America?

George McMillan: yeah. boy. Yeah.

Stuart Turley: Mel Gibson. Yeah, absolutely. A great one. It’s one of my dad’s favorite movies. Being a military pilot that he is George, we have about ten more minutes. And of these 10 minutes just is a little bit of a teaser again for our folks. And that is we’ve got the four articles. The fourth is going out today. You’re going to have your page on energy news B dot com, and that page is going to be organized very nicely so people can go to that one page and then we’re going to start having these videos out here.

Stuart Turley: So in I am, I owe you an apology for sidetracking you. But the one point I want to make is that as we’re going through this learning curve with you, it applies to today.

George McMillan: yeah.

Stuart Turley: Is is you’re leading up and I hate to keep bringing it to today, but you have you have really opened the veil for me in this and I can’t begin to tell you thank you but we got about ten more minutes and I don’t want to interrupt. Yeah, not again.

George McMillan: Let’s let’s close this out with again, the the idea of the first few papers is if you get Russia, Russia natural gas going to Germany and it’s already connected with power Siberia. One project which is was completed a few years ago. So Russia and China are already integrated. So the United States can’t separate Russia and China as as it did as it wanted to under the under the Kennan or Kissinger strategies right out of the 1960s and seventies.

George McMillan: So that’s kind of gone. And they want to build power in Siberia to come from the Yamal field up in the Arctic. Okay, that’s going to be a huge pipeline. They want to build that through Mongolia because they don’t want it to go through Kazakhstan because they’re selling the same product. So Putin wants to send it around. China just wants it to go through Kazakhstan because then it fits into their existing pipeline network already and is the fastest, cheapest thing to do.

George McMillan: But Russia wants to send it around and bring in Mongolia into it so they can economically develop and integrate. And again, they are all the players in that area. All the nation states are selling oil and gas and other raw materials. So they’re all competitors in the same space. So nobody wants the other country to shut off their gas so they can sell Russia their natural gas to China and feed that industry.

George McMillan: China doesn’t want any country to cut off any other countries supply either, so they want as many pipelines going north to south or east or west to east as possible. Right. So no one person can cut off their supply. China’s also been rebuilding its 300 coal power plants for the last several years.

Stuart Turley: Yeah, they have 400 new ones. 400 new ones per minute already.

George McMillan: Okay Yeah. So they’re trying to hardly can do that because of all the perimeter wars. If the U.S. Navy cuts them off. And in Malacca, they want to switch to coal. That’s why that. Yeah, yeah. I mean if you were them just rational actor models is all I’m doing. If you were, then what would you do? If you’re being surrounded, if you already know what the strategic plans are because, you know, I named the authors in these strategic plans.

George McMillan: They teach at the major universities. Okay. They’re reading the same books.

Stuart Turley: I just want to tell you something here. Every topic in every paper that I read all the time, I read lots of articles every morning. I’m up at four or five. I read till, you know, 8:00 and I work on the news, news channels and stuff. Everybody is saying China is putting in the coal plants, the new coal, the 400 that are permitted.

Stuart Turley: They’re putting in one or two week, whatever the numbers coming. Yeah, the gigawatt 480 gigawatt, whatever the number is that is coming up is because they need the power plus their renewables. That comment that you just made is so critical it that is an epiphany for me right now because all of a sudden that made about four or five other articles tie through a thread that is not being talked about.

Stuart Turley: That is it is not there.

George McMillan: Right. I mean, getting back to Wesley Clark, he talks about somebody hijacked the American foreign policy. Well, right. Again, it’s for the journalist to figure out what that is. The covert agencies, you know, whether it’s United States, Britain, you know, China, Russia, whatever, it’s not up for the covert agencies to tell us what their strategic plans are. Otherwise, they would not be covert agencies.

George McMillan: Right. So, I mean, it’s up to, you know, read the books, figure it out what it is, and just throw it open for discussion. Right. You know, so that was that was why I throw in the Wesley Clark interviews will be a role that, you know, when we write we can because we got to do a whole bunch more podcast.

George McMillan: But yeah, just to just to close out what the domino theory was, it’s China’s already I mean, Russia and China are already connected by natural gas. So China is going to be more economically viable because of lower energy costs and they can’t be cut off. Had Nord Stream gone through, then all then all the Eastern European countries that NATO’s moved into.

George McMillan: Right. Can be bypassed. You can’t you can’t influence elections in the sea. So Nord Stream had to be blown up because of if if the industrial power center of Germany gets gas, natural gas, there are goods, you know, cars, BASF, with their pharmaceuticals and right petrochemical production, they become more competitive, you know, against, you know, Dow and people like that.

George McMillan: DuPont They become more competitive worldwide. But it’s not just Germany. It’s it’s Switzerland. It’s the whole German world, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria.

Stuart Turley: And the Slavic area as well, too.

George McMillan: Then you get the whole Danube River Valley in the Slavic area. Yeah. So every place that Naito moved into you’re like, they’re blocking this for, they’re blocking this pipeline, they’re blocking this river because.

Stuart Turley: That’s.

George McMillan: Why the great game of the great of Great Britain for 300 years now, they’ve got the rivers already mapped out. Instead of blocking just agricultural, now you’re blocking oil shipments. Right. So technology change, energy change. But the rivers didn’t move.

Stuart Turley: Now the game still was there.

George McMillan: The gas strategy is still there. So then if China’s connected to Russia and again, these are bilateral agreements, not saying they all get along in multilateral agreements, but for a game theoretic competition, it’s better that they are than a lot of them are rivals because when one of them gets gets a price advantage for energy, the other one has to follow suit, too.

George McMillan: Exactly. You only have to do a bilateral agreement with Russia. So then if China is integrated with Russia, the German world gets integrated with Russia, with the secondary players. And again, river, what’s Japan going to have to do? They got to complete the Hokkaido to Sakhalin pipeline so they can get it. If Japan and the other people get in, what’s South Korea going to do?

George McMillan: Well, Russia’s been to North Korea a lot. They talk about foreign military sales and pipelines wherever Putin and the Gazprom executives go. So if they talk about foreign military sales, which is what the mainstream media is talking about, what the mainstream media isn’t talking to you about is probably a pipeline going through North Korea to South Korea.

Stuart Turley: No, no, they’re not.

George McMillan: Yeah.

Stuart Turley: Well, George, I cannot wait for our next group. And I mean, I can’t wait for our web design team to have you have your own page. So we’re going to have that organized and have it approved by you. So, yeah, I just cannot wait to help continue get this discussion out. You know, even though I got my MBA, you can tell that I keep trying to pull back to finance.

Stuart Turley: Yeah. And this is a whole different kind of an animal oil. And I love studying geopolitical and this is a front row seat to the great professor George McMillan. I’m having so much fun. Thank you so much. Now, last word to you.

George McMillan: yeah. We’ll just. Yeah, the biggest threat to that Firepower Center alliance. Turns out that is not communism. It’s actually cheap Russian gas and again, we need to control one variable at a time. And and you have to see if if the U.S. and U.K. strategy is to surround Russia, then you got to see, well, okay, what’s their counter strategic plan?

George McMillan: And then that’s how you start building strategic models. So, yeah, the plan here isn’t to come up with a definitive solution, because if I could do that, if my crystal ball worked really well, I would I would just play it. In the end, though, and in the lottery, and I wouldn’t be doing this at all. So we’re building a model where people as things start to move because you’re going to have different you’re going to have some people making some oddball moves and you’re going to have some black swan events, right?

George McMillan: So when something happens instead of people starting to figure out what their emergency procedure response procedures are, if you already have your emergency response procedures mapped out ahead of time, they play. They play COA option D okay, switch this menu. And then what’s the collateral effects? How are the other people going to play that which coa is?

George McMillan: And you do that by watching which political parties are going to win in each state and each large actors.

Stuart Turley: Yeah, I can see that you and I are going to have a merch store on your page. We’re going to have T-shirts made and then we’re E Do you remember risk that game?

George McMillan: yeah. Yeah.

Stuart Turley: I love risk. In fact, we had risk parties that would last all night. We get five or six risk risk boards, tie them together and just get in the middle of law. And we would play for 24 hours straight that I love this kind of stuff that much that we’re going to have the McMillan and Associates risk game update.

George McMillan: yeah.

Stuart Turley: So you got as a merge, we’re going to have to create the McMillan Risk.

George McMillan: Yeah, Risk Strategic, strategic. Always another one back in the day.

Stuart Turley: Yeah. But we I’m sitting here thinking, you got to have this in a board and you’re going to have to have maps there for people to really look at.

George McMillan: Yeah. And I guess, yeah, Why did we wait for a whole bunch of different reasons. Yeah. Yes. Bert. Yeah, well, we’ll leave it there because if we open up another kind of we need to have, we need to continue. We need have several more podcasts if we get it.

Stuart Turley: Absolutely. George, thank you for stopping by the podcast today. George McMillan, CEO of McMillan and Associates, will have your LinkedIn conversation and thank you for your industry thought leadership. George Outstanding. Thank you for stopping by today.

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